[Tweeters] Unknown Hawk

[Kevin Lucas]

On the RT you linked I see lighter and darker bands on the exposed parts of 
the feathers of the back.

On the Fir Island bird I see quite disheveled feathers, showing normally 
hidden parts of the back feathers. I see lots of very light/white bands on 
those parts of feathers that look like they'd normally (when not 
disheveled) be hidden by other feathers. So I'm not able to discern a back 
pattern on it that seems representative of it's non-disheveled appearance. 
I think it could have the Red-tailed vee pattern, or normal rang variation 
of that vee, if its feathers were in order.

The image you linked to the "Red Shouldered Hawk" shows the yellow cere 
that seems to be a necessary trait of Red-shouldered Hawks. But if I'd seen 
it from only that perpective, with its lack of rufous on its shoulders, 
lack of rufous belly markings, that light pattern on its back, that pattern 
on its tail feathers, that body shape, and in Canada where Red-shouldered 
Hawks are seldom found, I'd have identified it as a Red-tailed Hawk, and I 
think that's what it is. I realize it's extremely presumptuous of me to 
think it is misidentified, given that photo is published in Smithsonian 
Magazine and labeled as "Red Shouldered Hawk". It not being labeled as 
"Red-shouldered Hawk" helps me doubt the vetting done. As always, I'm 
calling it as I see it, and I realize I could be wrong in my perception and 
in what field marks matter.

I see the lack of a yellow cere on the Fir Island Bird. That seems to me to 
preclude it being a Red-shouldered Hawk. I think the Fir Island bird looks 
like a Red-tailed Hawk.

You've got me hoping I can get good photos of juvenile disheveled RTHA & 
RSHA backs.

Kevin Lucas
Yakima County, WA

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On March 12, 2022 8:51:55 PM Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 at gmail.com> wrote:


> I think these two photos are illustrative.  (Not surprisingly perhaps, 

> there aren’t many photos on-line showing only the backs of immature buteos.).

>

> https://photocontest.smithsonianmag.com/photocontest/detail/an-immature-red-shouldered-hawk/ 

> <https://photocontest.smithsonianmag.com/photocontest/detail/an-immature-red-shouldered-hawk/>

>

>

>

> https://www.featheredphotography.com/blog/2015/07/14/juvenile-red-tailed-hawk-in-flight-and-perched/ 

> <https://www.featheredphotography.com/blog/2015/07/14/juvenile-red-tailed-hawk-in-flight-and-perched/>

>

>

> Fir Island bird:   https://flic.kr/p/2n82Wbg <https://flic.kr/p/2n82Wbg>

>

>

> On the Fir Island bird, the individual feathers on the back are boldly 

> patterned in white and brown in alternating bands, like the photo of the 

> immature Red-shouldered Hawk in the photo above.    In contrast, the 

> immature Red-tailed Hawk has pale edges to feathers, with the rest of the 

> individual feathers being rather plain, without bands of white and brown.   

> The pale edges of feathers on the immature Red-tailed Hawk form the typical 

> “V” pattern on the back side (scapulars) of sitting bird, unlike the Fir 

> Island bird.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> On Mar 12, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Steve Hampton <stevechampton at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

>>

>> Interesting photograph. I lean toward Red-tailed Hawk based on:

>> yellow iris

>> the size of the eye relative to the bill and head

>> number of tail bars (at least 7)

>> the tail bars are of mostly uniform width (on Red-sh the distal bars seem 

>> to get thicker)

>>

>>

>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 1:53 PM Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 at gmail.com 

>> <mailto:jeffgilligan10 at gmail.com>> wrote:

>> I think we can eliminate the yellow sere or lack of it, as being an 

>> important ID factor.  For example, see this immature Red-tailed Hawk has an 

>> obvious yellow sere:  

>> https://www.audubon.org/magazine/fall-2016/six-quick-questions-help-you-identify-red-tailed 

>> <https://www.audubon.org/magazine/fall-2016/six-quick-questions-help-you-identify-red-tailed>

>>

>> A quick answer, without a leading question, from a very good Santa Barbara 

>> birder was that it is an immature Red-shouldered.  He wasn’t committed to 

>> that as positive though.  He has Red-Shouldered Hawks that nest behind hs 

>> house.

>>

>> Jeff Gilligan

>>

>>

>>

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>>

>>

>>> On Mar 12, 2022, at 9:24 AM, J. Acker <Owler at sounddsl.com 

>>> <mailto:Owler at sounddsl.com>> wrote:

>>>

>>> I’m not so sure about imm Red-Shouldered.  This bird appears to be a buteo, 

>>> and a chunky one.  Red shoulders are more slender / less bulky looking.  

>>> Also the number and width of the tail bars is not matching up with the 

>>> photos I have viewed online of red-shouldered. Additionally,  the cere 

>>> should be yellowish in a red-shouldered and this photo has an all dark bill 

>>> and cere.

>>> But I am confused as to what this bird is also.

>>>

>>> J. Acker

>>> Owler at sounddsl.com <mailto:Owler at sounddsl.com>

>>> Bainbridge Island, WA

>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

>>>  From: BURT CUNNINGHAM <mailto:burtc_8 at msn.com>

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>>

>> --

>> ​Steve Hampton​

>> Port Townsend, WA  (qatáy)

>>

>>

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