[Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding

[Roger Craik via Tweeters]

Carmelo

Speaking of "conflating" I just stuck with the one issue, "trivial" as 
that may be.

It's a rather huge rabbit hole to go down when all the other issues you 
mention get placed into that pot. And therein lies the problem with this 
whole discussion on Tweeters, conflation.

Conflation is a good way to hijack a discussion.

I've said my 2 bits so on that note I'll leave the listerv to settle 
back down to its normal self.

Roger


On 2024-06-27 9:00 a.m., Carmelo Quetell wrote:

> Roger

>

> Therein lies the problem. You're asking to not throw the baby out with 

> the bath water when it comes to the AOS name changes (change no names, 

> only change some names, etc.), yet you want to conflate and dismiss 

> every effort to make birding more just, inclusive, and/or equitable as 

> "cancel culture" or "woke nonsense". One set of rules for what you 

> want, a different set of rules for what you don't want, nothing 

> changes, and you get to stay in your comfort zone.

>

> The world is changing. New generations are moving into adulthood. Do I 

> think that these name changes are going to end racism? Hell no. Do I 

> think that these name changes, in and of themselves, are the missing 

> piece in getting more people to start birding? No.

>

> However, I know there are always people watching from a safe distance. 

> In this case, young and nonwhite people who love birds and the 

> outdoors, who want to join communities of like-minded people.

>

> When they see this level of resistance, ignorance, and vitriol, 

> especially for something so trivial, they're not going to feel like 

> it's safe enough to join the ranks. Nobody wants to be integrated into 

> a burning building.

>

> The birds need more human allies NOW. If the birding elders don't do 

> their part to call in the youth and prepare the younger adults for 

> birding elder hood, the village will die off. Especially with all this 

> tech that is keeping people from connecting with the real world.

>

> Is that what you want? Is it worth digging in your heels just so you 

> don't have to put a few new wrinkles in your brain?

>

> -Carmelo

>

> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *From:* Roger Craik <r_craik at shaw.ca>

> *Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2024 11:44 AM

> *To:* Carmelo Quetell <melocq22 at msn.com>; tweeters at u.washington.edu 

> <tweeters at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding

> Carmelo

>

> Birding should be apolitical and not subject to the whims of what 

> appears to be a cancel culture movement within the AOS. Messing with 

> either the nomenclature or taxonomy, unless you are going to subdivide 

> a species, makes it appear that this is the case. If it walks like a 

> duck...

>

> FWIW I have been subscribed to Tweeters for about 25 years as an 

> active participant or a lurker. There are occasional blowups on the 

> listserv that can occur over controversial issues and unless things 

> degenerate into ad hominem attacks they usually blow over.

>

> I guess if one can't agree to disagree then leaving is the only 

> option. Maybe ""shut up and bird"" really is the way to go.

>

> Roger

>

>

>

> On 2024-06-27 5:23 a.m., Carmelo Quetell wrote:

>> Roger,

>>

>> I'm not 100% sure what your intention was when you sent this response 

>> to Aadu's message. However, it is an operant example of being tone 

>> deaf. At this point, several people on this listserv who oppose the 

>> AOS name changes have stated they don't understand why it's important 

>> (because they're only looking at it through the lens of their own 

>> personal experience).

>>

>> Despite it not being Aadu's responsibility to explain it for (or 

>> justify it to) others, they have taken the time to do so, along with 

>> naming the impact it has had on them. Replying in this way is not 

>> helpful. Regardless of what your intention was when you clicked send, 

>> it reads as dismissive of Aadu's message, while at the same time 

>> driving their point home even more.

>>

>> Carmelo

>>

>>

>>

>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> *From:* Tweeters <tweeters-bounces at mailman11.u.washington.edu> on 

>> behalf of Roger Craik via Tweeters <tweeters at u.washington.edu>

>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2024 2:22 AM

>> *To:* tweeters at u.washington.edu <tweeters at u.washington.edu>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding

>> All

>>

>> To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln

>>

>> You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the 

>> people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.

>>

>> Sounds to me like there's going to be a lot of displeased people 

>> along with a ton of people who don't really care for what ever 

>> reason. So just how many people are going to be really pleased by 

>> this exercise in inclusivity and respectfulness? At least until they 

>> have to run out and buy new birding books.

>>

>> Roger Craik

>> Maple Ridge BC

>>

>>

>> On 2024-06-26 2:46 p.m., Aadu Prakash via Tweeters wrote:

>>

>> Hi Tweeters community,

>>

>> Longtime lurker, but felt the need to write in. I'm a 31 y.o Indian 

>> American who has been birding for 25 years. Throughout my life, I've 

>> met many wonderful people who have welcomed me into the world of 

>> birding/ornithology. But on the flipside, I have often felt like the 

>> odd one out in many of the communities I participated in.

>>

>> It's disappointing that the discourse around changing eponymous bird 

>> names is being shut down. Almost like we're being told to "shut up 

>> and bird". I applaud folks like Steve and Carmelo who bring up 

>> reasons why this is an important initiative, and how it can lead to 

>> more diversity and inclusion in the birding world.

>>

>> Many underrepresented groups are faced with the task of 

>> "terraforming" the communities they engage with. They have to put in 

>> serious work to make these communities "habitable" for them. But 

>> through censorship and lack of support from leadership, they often 

>> burnout and disappear into the background (or leave the group 

>> altogether).

>>

>> From Carmelo's Op-Ed:

>>

>>     "Human beings at the AOS have committed their time, money, and

>>     resources toward this endeavor for the last several years.

>>     They’ve clearly stated an intention to actively involve the

>>     public in the process of selecting new bird names, as well as

>>     including a diverse representation of individuals with expertise

>>     in the social sciences, communications, ornithology, and taxonomy." 

>>

>>

>>  These people are actively trying to "terraform" our birding 

>> community in a way that is inclusive and respectful to us all. They 

>> should be supported, not shot down. Otherwise things will largely 

>> stay the same.

>>

>> I plan on unsubscribing from Tweeters and hope that the work is put 

>> into making this a more inclusive community that can attract AND 

>> retain folks from underrepresented communities.

>>

>> Best,

>> Aadithya (Aadu) Prakash

>>

>

> -- 

> Roger Craik


-- 
Roger Craik
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