<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</head>
<body>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">UNSUBSCRIBE <span id="ms-outlook-ios-cursor"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
Rick Taylor </div>
<div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
Everett, WA</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Tweeters <tweeters-bounces@mailman11.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Carmelo Quetell via Tweeters <tweeters@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 27, 2024 3:12:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roger Craik <r_craik@shaw.ca>; tweeters@u.washington.edu <tweeters@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">From unnecessarily replying to Aadu with Abraham Lincoln and "maybe 'shut up and bird' really is the way to go"...to taking your ball and going home. Safe travels. <span></span></div>
<div id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="TVNDo3T2fZ3QxHkIVncFJ8mlme9nr57Eu2lEXt1hTk7FGAYXq/SwJei5dEncMG4yXjCJwSfl9xD+hp9ZWiOkzFPMaGuJ46AtiF/N1oG0LUxSoqJBs3qcjQT1U6a5kQ7GiyZaVchXxGPhDcgQGFKrtRDbco1kz5L52JY9Cxh+Yxc=">
Outlook for iOS</a></div>
<div id="x_mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Roger Craik <r_craik@shaw.ca><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 27, 2024 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carmelo Quetell <melocq22@msn.com>; tweeters@u.washington.edu <tweeters@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding
<div> </div>
</font></div>
Carmelo<br>
<br>
Speaking of "conflating" I just stuck with the one issue, "trivial" as that may be.
<br>
<br>
It's a rather huge rabbit hole to go down when all the other issues you mention get placed into that pot. And therein lies the problem with this whole discussion on Tweeters, conflation.<br>
<br>
Conflation is a good way to hijack a discussion.<br>
<br>
I've said my 2 bits so on that note I'll leave the listerv to settle back down to its normal self.<br>
<br>
Roger<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-06-27 9:00 a.m., Carmelo Quetell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Roger</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Therein lies the problem. You're asking to not throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to the AOS name changes (change no names, only change some names, etc.), yet you want to conflate and dismiss every effort to make birding more
just, inclusive, and/or equitable as "cancel culture" or "woke nonsense". One set of rules for what you want, a different set of rules for what you don't want, nothing changes, and you get to stay in your comfort zone. <span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The world is changing. New generations are moving into adulthood. Do I think that these name changes are going to end racism? Hell no. Do I think that these name changes, in and of themselves, are the missing piece in getting more people to start
birding? No. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">However, I know there are always people watching from a safe distance. In this case, young and nonwhite people who love birds and the outdoors, who want to join communities of like-minded people. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">When they see this level of resistance, ignorance, and vitriol, especially for something so trivial, they're not going to feel like it's safe enough to join the ranks. Nobody wants to be integrated into a burning building. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The birds need more human allies NOW. If the birding elders don't do their part to call in the youth and prepare the younger adults for birding elder hood, the village will die off. Especially with all this tech that is keeping people from connecting
with the real world. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Is that what you want? Is it worth digging in your heels just so you don't have to put a few new wrinkles in your brain?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-Carmelo</div>
<div id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="hMrZuxkZXywEIhzke8G9kRWryz/BR0ugVN/AVGbsqcWHmXgY7Oy6zh/tVDlFxnrQpsNN6HAq9sgoD1jvErk581BEGBMT9U06P3GYGbYcVhzF24sCHAawUv+e4MLdeIvc66+Uw0Ng1vsWgDm8good1v2gDsDbH7C1+pFewUFXWHQ=" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="zbJR3A2ZBjYOPaEoNoFCC796C/xWEAF08UERchlqX73UiHPuWdf18aYnfpsJtNw+TLACEyf978316xfofD4BR5qSIku55uIoWumun8Q4VEw9gxfBv0h08Yu59TBuigOuzkdu7ScNE0teS8uUaGgTMXusMC2AvqBlIW8NwO3x+Qk=">
Outlook for iOS</a></div>
<div id="x_mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Roger Craik
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:r_craik@shaw.ca"><r_craik@shaw.ca></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 27, 2024 11:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carmelo Quetell <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:melocq22@msn.com">
<melocq22@msn.com></a>; <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tweeters@u.washington.edu">
tweeters@u.washington.edu</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tweeters@u.washington.edu">
<tweeters@u.washington.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding
<div> </div>
</font></div>
Carmelo<span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
<br>
Birding should be apolitical and not subject to the whims of what appears to be a cancel culture movement within the AOS. Messing with either the nomenclature or taxonomy, unless you are going to subdivide a species, makes it appear that this is the case. If
it walks like a duck...<br>
</span></span></span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
FWIW I have been subscribed to Tweeters for about 25 years as an active participant or a lurker. There are occasional blowups on the listserv that can occur over controversial issues and unless things degenerate into ad hominem attacks they usually blow over.<br>
<br>
</span></span></span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I
guess if one can't agree to disagree then leaving is the only option. Maybe "</span></span></span>"shut up and bird"" really is the way to go.<br>
<span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
Roger</span></span></span><br>
<span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
<br>
</span></span></span><br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-06-27 5:23 a.m., Carmelo Quetell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Roger,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I'm not 100% sure what your intention was when you sent this response to <span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Aadu's message. However, it is an operant example of being
tone deaf. At this point, several people on this listserv who oppose the AOS name changes have stated they don't understand why it's important (because they're only looking at it through the lens of their own personal experience). <span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Despite it not <span>being <span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Aadu's
responsibility to explain it for (or justify it to) others, they have taken the time to do so, along with naming the impact it has had on them. Replying in this way is not helpful. Regardless of what your intention was when you clicked send, it reads as dismissive
of <span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Aadu's message, while at the <span>same time driving their point home even more. </span></span><span></span></span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><br>
</span></span></span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span>Carmelo</span></span></span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div id="x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="DnvpzS4TC0vJJCEKg2/D0r5VdMh7X41ZlhUtkVGLm09o6D0OpyfttycEkFsaUC4nOtZWAayMN12MrVCglDrLlhB9CFgO7g8KtF/2shXDqatDQJfJmLweYx95TbqCoYJTunVySRJRGc3KxYLHs7mgGKNYVJHWpX351v4assUpT3A=" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="oqrLqOtJI0H5NgcnhaDCtj/AP7W2Pff/sbBnXVisahxN7nEqLV9+ZsfbTVyLs1RIPo1VAVE5zQeO1p0wnaT706kMEb2Jqp/jfdkDuF9piUupmmKp1p0WY6V17RA5zej4uKvJN2a+fzBn/DiJrkJ5c7oWPsVBDwnH0X833NdE0LA=">
Outlook for iOS</a></div>
<div class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Tweeters
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tweeters-bounces@mailman11.u.washington.edu">
<tweeters-bounces@mailman11.u.washington.edu></a> on behalf of Roger Craik via Tweeters
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tweeters@u.washington.edu"><tweeters@u.washington.edu></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 27, 2024 2:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:tweeters@u.washington.edu">
tweeters@u.washington.edu</a> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tweeters@u.washington.edu">
<tweeters@u.washington.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tweeters] Inclusion in Birding
<div> </div>
</font></div>
All<br>
<br>
To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln<br>
<br>
You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div id="x_mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
Sounds to me like there's going to be a lot of displeased people along with a ton of people who don't really care for what ever reason. So just how many people are going to be really pleased by this exercise in inclusivity and respectfulness? At least until
they have to run out and buy new birding books.<br>
<div id="" class="" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class="" dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Roger Craik<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div id="" class="" dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Maple Ridge BC</span><br>
</div>
<div id="" class="" dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="" class="" dir="ltr"><span style="text-decoration:none; display:inline!important; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="x_ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-06-26 2:46 p.m., Aadu Prakash via Tweeters wrote:</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:inherit"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix"><span style="font-size:inherit">Hi Tweeters community,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Longtime lurker, but felt the need to write in. I'm a 31 y.o Indian American who has been birding for 25 years. Throughout my life, I've met many wonderful people who have welcomed me into the world of birding/ornithology.
But on the flipside, I have often felt like the odd one out in many of the communities I participated in.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">It's disappointing that the discourse around changing eponymous bird names is being shut down. Almost like we're being told to "shut up and bird". I applaud folks like Steve and Carmelo who bring up reasons
why this is an important initiative, and how it can lead to more diversity and inclusion in the birding world.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Many underrepresented groups are faced with the task of "terraforming" the communities they engage with. They have to put in serious work to make these communities "habitable" for them. But through censorship
and lack of support from leadership, they often burnout and disappear into the background (or leave the group altogether). </div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">From Carmelo's Op-Ed:</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="text-decoration:none; margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
"Human beings at the AOS have committed their time, money, and resources toward this endeavor for the last several years. They’ve clearly stated an intention to actively involve the public in the process of selecting new bird names, as well as including a diverse
representation of individuals with expertise in the social sciences, communications, ornithology, and taxonomy." </blockquote>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"> These people are actively trying to "terraform" our birding community in a way that is inclusive and respectful to us all. They should be supported, not shot down. Otherwise things will largely stay the same.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">I plan on unsubscribing from Tweeters and hope that the work is put into making this a more inclusive community that can attract AND retain folks from underrepresented communities.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best,</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Aadithya (Aadu) Prakash</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-signature">-- <br>
Roger Craik <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-signature">-- <br>
Roger Craik <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>