<div dir="ltr">So, one question that arises from this interesting discussion, is why are they separate species? Consider Audubon's/Myrtle Warbler.<div>Perhaps just because no one has gotten around to lumping them? Has any DNA work been done? Not that it would be necessary.</div><div>Bob OBrien Portland</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 3:05 PM Steve Hampton <<a href="mailto:stevechampton@gmail.com">stevechampton@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Agreed. Nearly all the warblers at Mt Walker in Jefferson County are Townsend's or hybrids. Pure Hermit is rare and would need good pics to demonstrate. Merlin sound identification commonly calls Townsend's, hybrids, and even Black-thr Gray as "Hermit Warbler." It's definitely an area where visual confirmation is needed. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:rgb(7,55,99)"> </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 11:23 AM Michael Hobbs <<a href="mailto:birdmarymoor@gmail.com" target="_blank">birdmarymoor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">In my experience, in the portion of Washington that has Townsend's, Hermit, and hybrids, they will all sing and respond to any variation of their collective songs. If you play a typical Townsend's song at a Hermit that was singing a typical Hermit song, the Hermit Warbler will come in and sing a Townsend's song back at you. And vice versa. Black-throated Grays will also get into the mix, singing songs closer to Townsend's/Hermit in the Hermit zone.<div><br></div><div>So I would never try to use voice to distinguish TOWA, HEWA, and TOxHE in the Hermit Warbler range in Washington.<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>= Michael Hobbs<br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 9:41 AM Jason Zolle <<a href="mailto:zollejd@gmail.com" target="_blank">zollejd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi tweets,<br><div><br></div><div>I am wondering if anyone is aware of any resources or has any useful information they can share related to distinguishing Townsend's and Hermit Warblers by song (1) from each other and (2) from hybrids. </div><div><br></div><div>To the first, I have read the relevant sections of The Warbler Guide, looked at many sonograms, listened to numerous recordings, and while I feel like I have a handle on identifying some songs by ear, I still am not nearly as comfortable as I would like here, and would love some suggestions to improve.</div><div><br></div><div>To the second, we birded Saturday north of Packwood in an apparent hybrid area and the majority of TOWA/HEWA songs we heard had me throwing up my hands in confusion. I suspect that may have been because many were abnormal songs of hybrids -- of the 8 birds we called in for visual identification, 4 were phenotypically pure Townsend's and 4 were hybrids (3 of those 4 being almost pure Hermit). I found a 1995 British Columbia birding article online that cites a 1983 article (which I cannot find) to the effect of "hybrids in Oregon sing like Hermit Warblers, and hybrids in Washington sing like Townsend's Warblers." That seems a bit simplistic and I am hoping to get more information if possible on what to listen for (or look for in a spectogram) so I can more confidently identify these birds by ear without feeling the need to call each one in for a visual inspection. I also am wondering if anyone knows whether pure Townsend's sing abnormal songs in a hybrid zone, perhaps because they are learning from their dad's hybrid neighbors.</div><div><br></div><div>I have thought that Merlin sound ID, which of course isn't perfect but often does a good job at seeing things in spectograms that are not readily apparent to the ear, would have been helpful in this task, but particularly in the hybrid zone it seemed to be equally confused, often showing both Hermit and Townsend's simultaneously or switching between the two. (And if it did show one bird only, that bird was almost always Hermit, which was a bummer because not a single bird we saw visually appeared as a pure Hermit). This leads me to think that maybe the songs do have elements of both that the AI is picking up on. I just would love to know exactly what it is seeing in the spectograms to make the call.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you!</div><div>Jason</div><div>Olympia, WA</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span>-- </span><br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><font size="4" color="#073763"><span></span>Steve Hampton<span></span></font></div><div>Port Townsend, WA (<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">qatáy</span>)</div></div><br><div><font color="#073763"><i><br></i></font></div></div></div>
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