[Tweeters] Yes, it IS possible to buy a better birding camera

[Manu Wallner]

Regarding auto focus, in my experience the newer cameras that have bird detection make it better but don’t fully take care of the problem. Twigs, brush, leaves that obscure part of the bird can again confuse the detection algorithm, especially in low light situations. In these environments it is still advisable to keep a spot AF point as close to the bird as possible, which can aid the AF system in snapping onto the bird - whereas in most other situations using wide AF is completely fine to pick out the bird from the background, and stay locked onto it, even in flight. Whether the “eye” auto focus works also depends on the type of bird. My experience here is limited to Sony, but my understanding from various reviews is that Canon/Nikon cameras have similar limitations. 

Regarding whether to use a zoom lens, I use a Sony 200-600. This lens has a very short zoom throw, i.e. a quarter turn is enough to go from one end of the range to the other. That makes it convenient to zoom out all the way to locate and track a fast moving bird, and then quickly zoom in to take the shot, for example right when the bird hops out onto a branch or into the light. I have had very good results with this technique in various challenging environments and with very fast birds. If you do also take photos of animals other than birds, often a shorter zoom length is required. 

On Sun, May 21, 2023, at 09:48, Manu Wallner wrote:

> Regarding auto focus, in my experience the newer cameras that have bird detection make it better but don’t fully take care of the problem. Twigs, brush, leaves that obscure part of the bird can again confuse the detection algorithm, especially in low light situations. In these environments it is still advisable to keep a spot AF point as close to the bird as possible, which can aid the AF system in snapping onto the bird - whereas in most other situations using wide AF is completely fine to pick out the bird from the background, and stay locked onto it, even in flight. Whether the “eye” auto focus works also depends on the type of bird. My experience here is limited to Sony, but my understanding from various reviews is that Canon/Nikon cameras have similar limitations. 

> 

> Regarding whether to use a zoom lens, I use a Sony 200-600. This lens has a very short zoom throw, i.e. a quarter turn is enough to go from one end of the range to the other. That makes it convenient to zoom out all the way to locate and track a fast moving bird, and then quickly zoom in to take the shot, for example right when the bird hops out onto a branch or into the light. I have had very good results with this technique in various challenging environments and with very fast birds. If you do also take photos of animals other than birds, often a shorter zoom length is required. 

> 

>> On May 21, 2023, at 09:05, Robert O'Brien <baro at pdx.edu> wrote:

>> 

>> Thanks to Jim for a very helpful birding camera review.  I'm still using an older Canon EOS 7D Mark II which is a very good camera, but maybe not "great"?

>> I'd say its weak point is autofocus, especially when the subject is in a,say, a twiggy environment where the twigs confuse the AF system.

>> I'm guessing from the review that this is less-of, or not, a problem?  This is always a major problem with bird photography.

>> 

>> But a more general question I've always had is why to buy a zoom lens for a 'birding' camera.  For a general purpose camera a zoom lens has the obvious advantages.  But for a bird camera, would not a 400mm lens, lacking lots of useless moving parts, be better.  Would you ever want to use the 100mm for a bird?  This would be when  you're too close to the bird?  That has always been a puzzler for me, why so many 'serious' birder photographers buy zoom lenses.

>> Grateful for any and all answers to both questions.

>> Bob OBrien  Portland

>> 

>> 

>> On Sun, May 21, 2023 at 7:39 AM <jimbetz at jimbetz.com> wrote:

>>> Hello all,

>>> 

>>>    Several months ago I asked "what camera do you recommend?" and

>>> several of you responded.  I found that I just wasn't able to

>>> make a decision - even though I also consulted my nephew who

>>> used to be a Nikon Tech Rep.  So I went dormant on the topic.

>>> But the desire to get better pictures, especially of birds in

>>> flight, was always there in the back of my mind.

>>>    I have made a decision and will make a purchase very soon.

>>> 

>>>    There was something I did that was key to making that decision.

>>> My nephew recommended I consider renting a camera and lens - or

>>> two.  Since he was going to be here (lives in NYC) we used that

>>> opportunity ... and rented both a Nikon D500 and a Canon EOS R7.

>>> Both were with manufacturer zoom lenses in the 100-400 range.

>>> At this point it is important that I remind you that I own a

>>> Panasonic Lumix DZ-1000 ... which I still consider an excellent

>>> "entry level camera".  It is a mirrorless "bridge camera" that

>>> does not have interchangeable lenses but has a 25-400 zoom.

>>> 

>>>    Sooooo, the R7 with the 100-400 lens is a clear winner.  It has

>>> an -amazing- auto focus system that really works.  Set up for

>>> "Sports and Animals" it finds the bird and focuses on it and

>>> follows it with razor sharp accuracy.  Even when the bird is

>>> flying across in front of you.  All I have to do is to keep the

>>> bird in the frame and hold the shutter down and the camera does

>>> the rest.  In fact one of 'problems' I'm dealing with is that I

>>> have far more images of BIF than I can use and have to select

>>> the one I want to keep/use based upon the timing of the action

>>> (wings up/down/folded/etc. or head up/left/right/etc.).

>>>    Is every picture "perfect"?  Of course not.  But by far the

>>> majority of them are "as good as this camera can do" ... which is

>>> very good.  If you take the time to look up my eBird checklists

>>> for the last 3 days you will find some examples of Great Blue

>>> Herons, Bald Eagles, an Osprey, Oystercatchers, Harlequin Ducks,

>>> Red-tailed Hawk, etc.  Many of them are BIF (birds in flight)

>>> which was one of the primary things I was disappointed in

>>> with the Lumix.  But the better sensor and better optics of

>>> the R7 are a big plus.

>>> 

>>>    Yes, there are probably even better cameras out there that

>>> will do an even better job.  But perhaps not so much if you

>>> include my priorities?  I want (need?) handheld and ease of

>>> carry (low weight).  It's my birding camera.  Yes, even

>>> better pictures are available with a longer lens on a tripod

>>> with a gimbal mount while shooting from a blind that you hide

>>> out in for several hours ... but I'm not that kind of bird

>>> photographer.

>>> 

>>>    Yes, this comes with a significant price tag compared to the

>>> Lumix ... but having seen the results possible that was an

>>> easy decision.  I will still keep and use my Lumix - for

>>> stuff like landscapes and grab style portraits.  But the R7

>>> will quickly become my 'only' birding camera.

>>>                                                       - Jim

>>> 

>>> P.S. BTW, with the Canon 100-400 zoom this camera is about as

>>>       good as 4x or 6x binoculars would be.  It's not the reach

>>>       of our 8x      nor even close to our 12x ... but it still

>>>       does a useful job of being a "spotting scope".  Plus if

>>>       you like what you see you just have to push to capture.  *G*

>>> 

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