[Tweeters] Interesting conversation with a Game Warden

retief at deweydrive.com retief at deweydrive.com
Fri Nov 15 00:26:09 PST 2013


Frankly, I am rather tired of the political garbage, and would much
prefer that this stop. There are plenty of other forums for this, I
subscribe to this to learn about the tweeting that birds do.

Quoting Cindy Ashy <tunicate89 at yahoo.com>:


> While I realize this is going to be an unpopular statement with

> some, I truly believe Discover Passes and anything akin to them are

> moving in the wrong direction... there is so much waste/fraud/bogus

> bureaucracy in government spending right now, this is the reason we

> no longer seem to have money for parks from public funds which is

> how I personally think they should be funded... i.e. hugely

> over-inflated contracts being handed out to family/friends/corrupt

> networks for example, favors for various political contributors,

> layers of red tape/paperwork/legal fees/etc that doesn't need to be

> there, etc, etc... If we could fix this, or even improve upon it,

> there would be plenty of public money for parks.

>

> I personally believe there ought to be public spaces, beautiful

> places, ocean beaches, rivers, bays, estuaries, wetlands, forests,

> mountains, deserts, and other wild places where ANYONE can go to

> soak up something natural, refresh their soul, breath clean air,

> clear their mind, listen to native birdsong, etc, without being

> tapped on the shoulder and asked, well actually demanded by law or

> you have to leave, to pay a private fee (not taxes)... it's pubic

> property, not private property, but you are forced to pay a private

> fee usage anyway... I do not agree this is way to go... I think it

> is basic human right that we are losing fast... I would not want to

> live on this planet in a 100 years given where we are currently

> headed and I truly hope it changes somehow without us having to go

> through something devastatingly horrible to wake everyone up to

> realities of what is actually happening in our world currently held

> hostage by monetary greed.

>

> Some people may not see the connection given the topic of this

> thread but Monsanto sits on the board of the Nature Conservancy

> (this one fact alone should be an enormous wake up call) and I-522

> did not pass because corporations bought the election -- quite

> literally bought it. Meanwhile, just over the horizon we'll have GMO

> salmon swimming around in the ocean rubber-stamped by the corporate

> controlled FDA while birds continue to eat the wild rapeseed now

> largely contaminated with GMO genes from canola, not to mention the

> GMO corn being put into the environment for birds by WFW. These

> things are VERY connected to the fact there is supposedly not enough

> money in public coffers for parks because the underlying root

> problem is the exactly the same. The parks funding issue is just a

> symptom of a much larger problem that needs fixing. Can you cure a

> disease by curing a symptom? I personally do not think so... I

> think you cure the disease by rooting out the

> underlying cause(s) and eliminating it.....

>

> Sorry if I'm offending anyone but I really need to speak my peace on

> this... and yes, I think this definitely relates to birds and

> birding, although I understand some will not see it that way.

>

> Cindy Ashy

>

> --------------------------------------------

> On Thu, 11/14/13, Tom Talbott <tom.talbott at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Interesting conversation with a Game Warden

> To: "Hal Michael" <ucd880 at comcast.net>

> Cc: "Tweeters" <tweeters at u.washington.edu>, "Walter Kuciej"

> <WALTERK74 at comcast.net>

> Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013, 7:34 PM

>

> There is no question that

> the "consumptive" users are better targeted and

> have more incentive to pay. It is all in one place (you go

> to buy your tags, passes, licenses at Walmart) and in

> totality they are avoiding being charged with poaching. That

> is a bit more daunting than a parking ticket. Buying a duck

> stamp is required for hunters. For anyone else, it is left

> up to charity.

>

>

> It is all built into the system for hunters.

>  They aren't being magnanimous for paying these fees,

> they are specifically targeted and for good

> reason.

> The misconception is that there are

> "non-consumptive" users.  Everyone makes an

> impact and the original post points that out.  But the

> system doesn't recognize it. So, instead, we resort to

> trying to guilt people into paying? That is not a good

> strategy either.

>

>

> The first step was to get people to start

> thinking in terms of paying for use. Before the Discover

> Pass, many places were free to use.  Convincing people that

> the money is actually needed is hard given the past, but not

> impossible. It's definitely not going to happen though

> charity, though.

>

>

> The system needs to adapt.

> But for now, since the hunters are forced to pay

> out more money, they pretty much feel like they rule the

> roost and those "non-consumptives" are merely

> tolerated at best.

>

>

> Tom

>

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013

> at 3:51 PM, Hal Michael <ucd880 at comcast.net>

> wrote:

>

>

> It will be

> interesting to see what happens.  The Discover Pass, as i

> understand it, has not generated anywhere near the revenue

> needed to keep the Parks open and maintain them.

>

>

>  

> The trend in Government is for user fees.  State tax

> money has been really cut back at Parks and WDFW. Without

> the consumptive users and their fees and taxes thereo would

> not be a WDFW, and probably not many F&W agencies in the

> US.  Eliminate the consumptive users/uses and the burden

> will fall to the general public.  Or, the non-consumptive

> users can pay the freight. 

>

>

>  

> As popular as they are, the national parks are

> underfunded.  I suspect that in a legislative vote to fund

> schools, infrastructure, police/fire, jails, healthcare, or

> natural resources that resources would miss the bus.

>

>

>

>

> Hal Michael

> Olympia WA

> 360-459-4005 (H)

> 360-791-7702 (C)

>

>

> ucd880 at comcast.net

>

>

>

> From: "Tom Talbott" <tom.talbott at gmail.com>

> To: "Hal Michael" <ucd880 at comcast.net>

>

>

> Cc: "Tweeters" <tweeters at u.washington.edu>,

> "Walter Kuciej" <WALTERK74 at comcast.net>

>

>

> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:13:02 PM

> Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Interesting conversation with

> a Game Warden

>

>

> Sounds like they are just perpetuating the

> problem.  

>

>

> I think times are changing, though, and old ideas need

> to be rethought. Discover Pass is a start.  The key is that

> it is centralized, easy to get, and well advertised.  I

> remember having to hunt down all the different ways to buy

> the different passes in the past or getting to a site and

> finding that that pass had just expired.

>

>

>

>

> I believe most people (at least I know am) are willing

> to pay money if the process is up front, easy, and going for

> what they care about.

>

>

> Tom

>

>

>

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013

> at 1:50 PM, Hal Michael <ucd880 at comcast.net>

> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Conceptually, yes.  In practice, the non-consumptive

> industry shot down proposals for taxes one their goods that

> would be equivalent to the Dingall-Johnson, and Duck Stamp

> programs.

>  

> The Discover Pass is essentially for State Parks. A

> pittance goes to DNR and WDFW.  How many here used to

> regularly buy the WDFW access pass?

>

>

> Hal Michael

> Olympia WA

> 360-459-4005 (H)

> 360-791-7702 (C)

> ucd880 at comcast.net

>

>

>

>

>

> From: "Tom Talbott" <tom.talbott at gmail.com>

> To: "Walter Kuciej" <WALTERK74 at comcast.net>

>

>

> Cc: "Tweeters" <tweeters at u.washington.edu>

> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:33:47 PM

> Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Interesting conversation with

> a Game Warden

>

>

>

>

> "I know many birders have

> somewhat negative opinions of hunters, but if it weren't

> for them, we'd have a lot fewer places to

> go. "

>

>

> I think that part of the problem

> is that the main way to support habitat is to support

> hunting.  Virtually all preservation exists to make sure

> there will be enough birds to shoot in the

> future.

>

>

>

>

> Hopefully, this will change as

> more people learn that you can be in nature without killing

> things.  If there were actual passes and stamps targeting

> birding and targeting habitat specifically for birds just

> because they are birds, I believe you would have more people

> contributing.  When the state sees birders and

> photographers as an asset and isn't predominately geared

> towards hunting, then they will see more uptake in terms of

> revenue from them.  It will be a balance, but for now the

> scale seems rather tipped.

>

>

>

>

> I think the Discover Pass is

> actually the first step in this direction.  I know people

> that don't like it, but I find it to be much better than

> the old system.

>

>

>

>

> Tom (renewed Discover Pass just

> came in the mail)

>

>

>

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013

> at 1:00 PM, Walter Kuciej <WALTERK74 at comcast.net>

> wrote:

>

> Yesterday we were leaving

> Eide Rd after dark, and stopped to talk with the friendly

> F+W guy. Learned a few things:

>

>

> Pheasant hunters have to wear orange; duck hunters

> don't.

> The area is stocked 3X weekly with 40-60 birds.

> The end of legal shooting time is adjusted periodically

> based on the length of the day, not necessarily

> "sunset", which is too subjective.

>

>

> Any changes to the Eide Rd. site will take years. Ducks

> Unlimited is the driving force here, not the Audubon society

> or any birding group.

>  He was surprised at how many $100 citations he gives to

> birders who did not get a Discovery Pass, but feel entitled

> to use the Wildlife areas anyway.

>

>

> He was also amazed at how many "listers" come long

> distances to see a rare bird, and not only don't get a

> pass, but trespass on private property as if they have some

> right to do so, not being hunters.This also happens with

> more casual birders. We saw it on Thomle Rd. when the Snowy

> Owls were there last winter. People just walking across the

> field who said it was "public land", or maybe too

> cheap to buy the $10 permit from the farmer "What

> farmer?" Not everyone reads tweeters.

>

>

> This has resulted in areas being closed to the public by

> normally friendly landowners who would probably give

> permission if asked. He mentioned once having to close a

> public area that was  being overrun by birders. As always,

> a small group can give a bad name to those who play by the

> rules.

>

>

> If a Discover Pass ($30, think of it as a "birding

> license") and a Federal Duck Stamp ($15, which goes to

> buy land for refuges) seem excessive, ask yourself how much

> you spend on optics, apps, gas etc.

> I know many birders have somewhat negative opinions of

> hunters, but if it weren't for them, we'd have a lot

> fewer places to go.

> _______________________________________________

>

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